Bill Rammell, Minister of State for Innovation, Universities and Skills answered your questions here at 10.30am on Thursday 5 July 2007.
Introduction by Philippa Russell:
Hello and welcome to today's Disability Debate live discussion on post-15 learning and skills. We expect to start from about 10:30am. Our very welcome guest today is Bill Rammell, Minister of State in the new Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills. This is your opportunity to ask him about Government policy around post-16 education and training and, in particular, how we can best ensure that disabled people can access the education, training and other opportunities which will enable them to develop the skills necessary for employment and life as active citizens.
Today's debate is timely - the Disability Rights Commission published the revised Code of Practice on Post-16 Education last week.
Please join in the debate!
Question 1 Submitted by: Brian Simpson
Through the Adult Learning Service we have been offering confidence building courses for newly disabled clients. These have been tremendously useful in helping people raise their self esteem and to move on with their lives. We have now been told that most LSC funds are being focussed on NEETs and that our courses will be unfunded. Can you tell me how this fits in with the Government's push for lifelong learning? And "Improving the life chances of disabled people"?
Answer by Bill Rammell MP:
Well, what Brian has been told is actually not true. Within the money that we've allocated for adults in the personal and community and development fund, for which there's £210 million a year available, we have made it clear through the LSC that disabled students must be a priority. So it sounds to me like this is a local decision and without knowing the details of the local decision it's difficult for me to comment further. Certainly the local LSC will be aware of our national guidance and I think the best bet is if we have Brian's contact details I will make sure my office looks into this and I will come back to him with a more detailed response.
Question 2 Submitted by: Margaret Thomas-Baptiste
I would like to ask about improving provision for those with Aspergers Syndrome in FE and HE. I had to fight single handed to gain an appropirate level course for my son who has Aspergers Syndrome, is highly intelligent and competent but was asumed to be incapable of working at the level 2 course he wanted. He has actually excelled and more than proven his place. we had some really useful advice from SKILL but I was surprised at the level of ignorance around autism and AS in particular, I would love to see more opportunity open up and much more understanding of this area. far too many kids are being missed and being wrongly treated as incompetent and not being stretched to their full potential. thank you.
Answer by Bill Rammell MP:
I very much welcome Margaret's view because what she demonstrates, or more importantly what her son demonstrates, is that just because you have a learning difficulty or a disability does not mean in all circumstances that you do not have the potential to progress educationally. Part of the process that the Learning and Skills Council has been undertaking which has led to changes at a local level is about genuinely ensuring that provision does lead to progression opportunities. I think the other thing I would say with regard to somebody with Asperger's is that we are looking at the issue of the statement in process to ensure that there is that continuing opportunity for people with learning difficulties and disabilities. Again, as we have Margaret's contact details I will make sure we give her a fuller response.
Question 3 Submitted by: Alex Kemp
Can you confirm whether there are plans to lift the current cap on General Disabled Students' Allowances?
Answer by Bill Rammell MP:
I have hopefully got some very good news on that in that I have just made a decision that we announced in Parliament on Monday this week and that means that from 2008-9, the maximum amount of Disabled Students' Allowance for non-medical helpers and for post-graduates will be increased by 60 per cent. That means that the maximum amount of DSA for post-graduate students will increase from £5,915 in 2007-8 to £10,000 in 2008-9 and the maximum amount of DSA for non-medical helpers will increase from £12,420 in 2007-8 to £20,000 in 2008-9 for full-timers and from £9,315 in 2007-8 to £15,000 in 2008-9 for part-time students. I think this is an important and welcome change and I would pay tribute to the National Union of Students, who have campaigned strongly on this issue.
Question 4 Submitted by: Paul Carter
How does the government plan to tackle the under representation of disabled people in higher education, particularly in the areas of maths, applied sciences and business studies - where there is traditionally low take up.
Answer by Bill Rammell MP:
I think a number of things. One, the full implementation of the disability discrimination legislation does make it easier for students with disabilities to access higher education. I think the significant increases in the maximum amounts of Disabled Students' Allowance that I have just announced will also help. I think as well we need to do more to promote positive role models, examples of disabled students who have benefitted from and succeeded in higher education. I think as well, if you look at the evidence over the last five years, there has been an increase in the number of students with disabilities who have accessed higher education and as they get older and access higher education, that will send out a very positive message as well.
Question 5 Submitted by: Sally Farraday
Many people with learning difficulties and disabilities learn and progress slower than their peers and this is recognised in duties to age 25. How will the government ensure continuity for these learners with the split in responsibility between the departments for children, schools and families and the Department for innovation, universities and skills?
Answer by Bill Rammell MP:
Well, you're talking to the right person. In the new Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills, I have responsibility for linking with my ministerial counterpart to ensure this is joined up. We cannot and must not operate in departmental silos and there's a real determination to ensure that we don't.
Question 6 Submitted by: Peter Little
Will the minister confirm that the very welcome launch of "Progression through partnership" will be followed through now that there has been such a significant change in departmental structures and responsibilities?
Answer by Bill Rammell MP:
I can absolutely give that commitment. What is interesting, when we launched the Progression Through Partnership cross-departmental initiative two or three weeks ago, that was launched by myself, Ivan Lewis, the health minister, and Anne Maguire, the minister for work and pensions. We launched it because we have done the work on putting that document together. Very helpfully, all three of us in the recent reshuffle retained our same jobs, so I think we have a really good chance to make this work.
Question 7 Submitted by: John Conway
What progress is being made on "enforcing" the DES scheme introduced in the revised DDA 2005? I appreciate that many disabled people feel that willing or "voluntary" compliance is far preferable, but where companies or public bodies are still flouting the requirements of the original 1995 act, will we see some high profile action taken at any stage?
Answer by Bill Rammell MP:
Well, my understanding is that the DDA provisions are statutorily enforceable and therefore where there is non-compliance, action can be taken. So I do think, like the questioner, it is preferable to have willing converts rather than organisations and individuals who are being dragooned. So it's a combination of hearts and minds backed up by statutory force and the sharing and spreading of best practice is critical in this regard.
Question 8 Submitted by: Charlotte Morse
At present there is nothing within the FE curriculum that enables young people with a learning disability to investigate the principles behind Valuing People. Information around LD Partnership Boards, how to ensure your voice is heard, how government works etc… and the teaching of self advocacy skills to young people is not only essential to them but also a way to ensure that when involved in working within the partnerships reccommended by Valuing People are informed & valuable members of the team, not just ticking a box by being there. Should this not be implemented? Where can I take this idea to be piloted?
Answer by Bill Rammell MP:
I think we are doing a hell of a lot to promote the concept of the learner voice within further education. Indeed, yesterday I presented some of the CEL awards for the learner voice and one of those was for a college that specialises in support and provision for students with learning disabilities and disabilities. We are increasing the opportunities for learning representation on college governing bodies, through the National Learner Panel, and we are looking to ensure learner representation in the LSC and the sector skills councils. We need to ensure, and I'm determined that we will do this, that learners with learning difficulties and disabilities are properly represented within those structures. The National Learning and Skills Council are in the process of setting up a specific national panel for learners with learning difficulties and/or disabilities. Your idea, Charlotte, sounds like the kind of thing they would be interested in picking up on to help them spread learner representation throughout the LSC regions. We will certainly take that idea up.
Question 9 Submitted by: Nick Bason
Minister To improve the employment rate of disabled people, employers need job candidates with the right skills for the right vacancy, yet too often the job seeker cannot get access to these courses, or the trainers are not themselves disability confident. How do you plan to ensure that training and skills courses are fully accessible to job seekers?
Answer by Bill Rammell MP:
Nick this is right at the heart of the changes we and in particular our partner government departments, Department of Health and the Department for Work and Pensions have agreed and published in ‘Progression through Partnership’. We believe we must improve the outcomes into employment and to do this I have said to the Learning and Skills Council that course must lead to positive outcomes. One of these must be employment and this could come after a learner has progressed at their own pace. We are testing elements now of the Foundation Learning Tier which will concentrate on employability skills as well as skills for life and vocational skills, so that learners can progress to the next level or the indeed a job. You are right too about trainers. We plan to ensure that the workforce is able to become disability compliant and we are hoping to make some practical suggestions around joint training qualifications of staff. The DWP is concerned to address the points you raise and as part of their Review of Disability Employment Services (RoDES) they want to develop specialist services for disabled people, particularly those who experience complex barriers. To do this we will need to ensure that job seekers can access course which will help them ‘break through’ and we intend to combine to provide individual packages of support which will enhance employability. Finally we also need to work on employers to ensure they understand what they can do to help and understand what tremendous contributions disabled employees can make to the workforce and the bottom line.
Question 10 Submitted by: Skill Policy Team
Skill: National Bureau for Students with Disabilities was delighted to hear that the Disabled Students Allowance (DSA) for non-medical helpers and for post-graduate students would be increased by 60% for 2008/09. Skill would like to know why a cap remains on the non-medical helper allowance as for some disabled students with sensory impairments and complex multiple disabilities their costs will exceed £20,000. Whilst Skill acknowledges that further education support for disabled students in the form of Additional Learner Support is by no means ideal with regards to the provision of equipment, the Learning and Skills Council (LSC) holds a regional budget to meet costs per student in excess of £19,000 - there is no limit on this. Skill would like to know why the postgraduate DSA was not brought in line with DSA provision for postgraduate students in Scotland. In Scotland, postgraduate students have the same entitlement to DSA as undergraduate students. In Scotland from the academic year 2005/2006, DSAs for postgraduate study were introduced at the same level as undergraduate DSAs. Research Councils’ have also recognised the need to provide more support for disabled postgraduate students and those able to secure a research council award for fees and/or maintenance will receive DSAs at the same level or above that of undergraduate DSAs.
Answer by Bill Rammell MP:
I have to say that I’m disappointed by Skill’s response. I would have hoped for a more positive reaction to these very significant increases in the DSAs. We have increased the caps in a way which is both affordable and makes a real difference to disabled students. The Government’s priority must be to widen participation at undergraduate level. We have not only done that but have made extra funds available for disabled postgraduates too. These 60% increases are unprecedented. It is easy to say “not enough” but I would have expected these major increases to have been welcomed unreservedly.
Question 11 Submitted by: Felicity Burgess
Whilst I think that it's great that DSAs will be increased for 2008/2009, what about those of us studying now? Due to my complex needs, the undergraduate DSA did not meet the cost of my needs, so I ended up having to apply to charities for equipment such as an adjustable height table, and paid for equipment such as a large computer monitor myself. It still seems that severely disabled students (particularly on clinical/professional courses) will have to foot some of their extra costs themselves.
Answer by Bill Rammell MP:
With these very large increases we aim to help more students with complex needs in the future. Whenever we make changes it will inevitably mean that some students already at university, or who have just completed higher education, will miss out on the extra support we are making available.
Question 12 Submitted by: Alex Larg
How will you ensure that disabled students will have a real voice in shaping the DSA funded services that they are provided with to make Higher Education accessible to them? They are, after all, the customers.
Answer by Bill Rammell MP:
We are in regular contact with disabled students’ representatives when developing DSA policy, including SKILL and the NUS. Customer focus is central to our plans for a new centralised student finance service which will come on line from 2008/09. The Student Loans Company has been consulting disabled students over its proposals for delivering DSAs in the new centralised service.
Question 13 Submitted by: Lee Greatbatch
I am registered blind and I am about to start the 2nd year of my degree in Sports Science at the University of Worcester. I also consider myself a student entrepreneur and have a business idea that i want to take fowards. I am making an application for a SPEED placement (Student Placement for Entrepreneurs in Education) to take my idea forwards. Whilst the University are supportive of me I have been advised by my home local authority that it is unlikely that I would be able to use my Disabled Student Allowance for providing me with any support for this program. In particular I would need a support worker for the 9 classes that this placement involves. This presents a huge barrier to me which other non-disabled students do not face. There are many additional opportunities given to students at university to maximise their potential however the DSA is not apparently designed for this so , and therefore disabled students are effectively excluded from these opportuntieis which is unjust. What will you be able to do to overcome these issues? Kind regards Lee Greatbatch
Answer by Bill Rammell MP:
I’m glad to hear your university has been supportive which I think demonstrates that disabled students aren’t excluded from these sorts of opportunities. But as far as the DSAs are concerned, they are designed to help meet the extra costs a disabled student incurs in order to undertake their higher education course. They are not available for activities which don’t fit that description. As you suggest, the DSAs were not designed to cover everything that a disabled person might want to do in life.
Closing comments by Philippa Russell:
Can I apologise on behalf of the minister and ourselves that he has had to leave early for an urgent meeting but we are very grateful that he was able to join us and he has agreed that those questions which could not be answered in a shorter session will be sent through to him for attention. We are grateful for the wide-ranging questions and the important issues which they raise. I would like to say thank you to everyone for their contributions to this web chat. I think today's theme is particularly timely. There is a big debate about education and vocational training for all young people. The UK has a significant skills gap and we know that the potential of many disabled people is currently wasted because of barriers to access to further or higher education or training. But we do now have a real commitment to improving the life chances of disabled people through progression in learning and I feel that today's web chat has been particularly appropriate because the Disability Rights Commission has just published its revised post 16 education code of practice. That reminds us of both the progress made since the original code of practice but the need for continuing action to ensure equality of access to education and thereby full participation as citizens in community and society for all disabled people.